Legislature(1995 - 1996)
05/03/1995 08:13 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 77 - INTENSIVE MANAGEMENT OF GAME Number 075 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN made a MOTION to CONCEPTUALLY AMEND SB 77 to adopt the language in CSHB 170(RES) to replace the language in CSSB 77(FIN) am. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated the committee had four hearings on HB 170. REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY said the sponsor, Representative Bert Sharp, does not object to adopting the language in CSHB 170(RES). Number 122 DON CORNELIUS, REPRESENTATIVE, DEFENDERS OF WILDLIFE (DOW), testified via teleconference and stated he is a professional wildlife biologist who worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) for 25 years. He said DOW opposes SB 77. DOW is concerned because this legislation was just passed last year. He pointed out SB 77 will further restrict the Board of Game's flexibility to achieve its management objectives by restricting methods or means of taking game, access to game, and human harvest of game. He equated the situation with driving a new car--you have a new car but all of a sudden you do not have any brakes or a clutch. MR. CORNELIUS said SB 77 seeks to maintain prey populations at historic high levels. These historic high levels have often been reached when species exceeded the carrying capacity of the range. Historically this was, and still is, an unsustainable level. He reiterated DOW is opposed to SB 77 and said there is a need for more input from professional biologists from ADF&G. Number 158 WAYNE REGELIN, ACTING DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WILDLIFE CONSERVATION, ADF&G, said the department remains opposed to SB 77, even if substitute language is used from the house version. The department feels SB 77 is bad wildlife policy. He stated the department is working hard to settle the wolf control controversy. In order to settle the controversy, the department must have a wolf management policy which is balanced and science based, so the public can accept it and the Board of Game and the department can use it to make good decisions. MR. REGELIN said unfortunately, the debate over the wolf control issue is being controlled by three to five percent of the people on each side of the issue with the most extreme views. He stated SB 77 is supported by a very small minority of hunters who are demanding very high harvest rates for moose and caribou. Their solution is wide-spread wolf control which will virtually eliminate wolves, brown bears, and black bears from many areas in Alaska. He noted it is the same group that is advocating paying bounties for wolves. MR. REGELIN stated mainstream hunting groups in Alaska, like the Safari Clubs, the Alaska Outdoor Council, and local sportsmen associations, do not endorse SB 77. He said these groups are very much in favor of intensive management but they are not in favor of a bill which goes this far. They know that management programs must have some balance or in the long term, they will damage hunting. He told committee members the department and the Board of Game currently have all the tools needed to manage wildlife. He noted the department and the Board of Game also have the intensive management bill the legislature passed last year that provides a clear direction on how the legislature wants them to manage. He explained the department and the Board of Game is in the process of implementing that new law and are moving as fast as the law allows. MR. REGELIN said SB 77 mandates harvest levels which are unattainable in the northern areas of the state which have hard winters. Even if all of the predators were removed from these areas, the department does not believe the harvest levels could be achieved as mandated in SB 77. He stated if SB 77 does become law, the department will do its best to implement it. However, based on his experience over the past five years working in wolf management, implementing a program in unit 20-A, and going through much effort to have a wolf control program, he is convinced the public will not accept the wide-spread wolf control program which SB 77 mandates because it lacks balance and safeguards for predator populations. He pointed out the program will be extremely controversial, it will direct world-wide attention and public ridicule at Alaska and will result in tremendous amounts of litigation and very likely federal intervention. In the long term, it will be stopped and the loser will be the hunter, not only in Alaska, but throughout the U.S. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES OBJECTED to the motion. Number 240 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said there are several differences between the two versions. He stated in CSHB 170(RES) on page 2, line 9, it reads "implementing regulations and management plans as requested..." and the Senate version says "implementing regulations, programs, and research as requested..." He explained in CSHB 170(RES) on page 2, line 18, it reads "depletion of the big game prey population or reduction..." and CSSB 77(FIN) am reads "depletion of the big game prey population from historic high levels or reduction..." CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN continued with differences between the two versions. He said in Section 5 of CSHB 170(RES), the word "active" is used in lines 1, 4, and 13 replacing the word "intensive". On page 3, lines 6 and 7, the Senate version reads "intensive management" means management, in accordance with the sustained yield principle, of an identified..." He noted CSHB 170(RES) has a repealer section, Section 10, which is not in the Senate version. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES WITHDREW his OBJECTION. Number 336 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN reiterated the motion is beginning with line 1, replaced the language in CSSB 77(FIN) am with the language contained in the house version CSHB 170(RES). CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said there is a technical problem at hand in that the committee needs to maintain the same title as the Senate version and in so doing, would need to insert Section 4 from CSSB 77(FIN) am into HCS CSSB 77(RES). He stated that section says "The commissioner may, with the approval of the governor, establish a departmental division of commercial fisheries, a departmental division of sport fisheries, and other departmental divisions as are necessary." and eliminates the words, [A DEPARTMENTAL DIVISION OF GAME,]. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN explained there is a need to adopt Section 4 of the Senate version, place it in the same position (after Section 3), insert the section after line 11, on page 2 of HCS CSSB 77(RES) and renumber the subsequent sections. He said that would make the bill consistent with no title change and would accomplish the flexibility within the department. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Regelin to give his interpretation of what Section 4 does. Number 395 MR. REGELIN stated Section 4 and Section 5 of CSSB 77(FIN) am need to go together. He said these sections change the name of the Division of Wildlife Conservation to the Division of Game by statute. Therefore, if only Section 4 is adopted, then it would be up to the discretion of the commissioner. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that Mr. Regelin recommends both sections be included rather than leaving it up to the department. MR. REGELIN stated the Division of Wildlife Conservation is responsible for the management of 512 species in Alaska and 87 percent are not hunted. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES felt the committee could leave the title alone and not adopt Sections 4 and 5. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said it probably would be an extended title. Number 425 JACK PHELPS, LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT TO REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, stated in discussions he has had with the drafting attorneys over this kind of issue, the title has to accurately reflect the contents of the bill. If a section is taken out which is reflected in the title, an incorrect title results. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES agreed the title has to accurately reflect the contents of the bill but he does not believe there is a requirement that everything in the title be in the bill. He felt everything in the bill affects the division. ROD MOURANT, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT, said in recent conversations with Jack Chenoweth, Legislative Legal Services, he indicated an overextended title is permissible and defensible, while too limiting a title is not. Therefore, if the title mentions things not included in the final version, that is acceptable. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a MOTION to ADOPT the TITLE in CSSB 77(FIN) am to be used in HCS CSSB 77(RES). CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. Number 480 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to AMEND HCS CSSB 77(RES) on page 3, lines 17 and 18: delete ", but not including restrictions on methods or means of taking game, access to game, or human harvest of game." and insert "and regulations by humans." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN OBJECTED for discussion purposes. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY told committee members he objects to the amendment and reminded them a similar amendment was offered during deliberations over HB 170. He noted that amendment was defeated. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a roll call vote. Voting in favor of the amendment was Representative Davies. Voting against the amendment were Representatives Austerman, Kott, Ogan, Williams and Green. The MOTION FAILED 5-1. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to AMEND HCS CSSB 77(RES) on page 3, line 29, after the word "shall" delete the words "attempt to" and insert the words "adopt goals to". CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN OBJECTED for discussion purposes. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES thought the committee had adopted a similar amendment when discussing HB 170. He said testimony at that time indicated this was a goal which was not realistic. Number 539 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN said when the committee heard and discussed HB 170, the amendment just moved was offered and was accepted. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY disagreed. He stated that amendment was in connection with page 3, line 29... BRUCE CAMPBELL, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, said it was a verbal modification by the Chairman to that amendment suggesting the word "attempt" and the word "attempt" satisfied Representative Davies goals and was accepted by the committee. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES WITHDREW his MOTION. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to AMEND HCS CSSB 77(RES) on page 3, line 13, after the word "management," insert the language "in accordance with the sustained yield principle,". CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. Number 565 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated he does not support HCS CSSB 77(RES) because he believes the bill is premature for the many reasons heard in testimony. He said the legislature passed a sweeping change to the law last year. He felt the process has not been allowed to move forward. He noted there have been several unfortunate instances which have set the process back again and people are rethinking about how to carry intensive game management forward. He supports intensive game management as a principle but believes there is a lot of public interest in how that is done. There needs to be a lot of public involvement and education in the process of moving intensive game management forward which takes a lot of time. He stressed the Board of Game and the department has not been allowed enough time to implement the law passed last year. SARA HANNAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY (AEL), expressed concern about the prematureness of this legislation. She felt it was an ironic move that in the Senate budget which cuts the ADF&G budget by $1.8 million, it also puts in $1.2 million for intensive game management applications. She thought it was totally inappropriate for the House Resources Committee to endorse those kinds of efforts when the committee's constituencies are commercial fishermen, subsistence users, and active hunters. Those constituencies are going to suffer in their management because of the decision to try a new tool, tie the hands of the department and spend $1.2 million on it. She urged the committee to oppose SB 77. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said he shared similar concerns mentioned by Representative Davies. He felt the legislature has not given the opportunity to see the full effect of the legislation passed last year. He stated he will not hold the bill up in committee in order to allow the House to vote on it. He noted unless he is convinced otherwise, he will probably oppose SB 77 on the floor. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN felt there is legitimacy to the concerns raised. He wondered if the measures passed last year have been fully implemented. MR. REGELIN responded the Board of Game met in March and made several changes in game management Unit 13 on bear management. The board made the decision that a reduction in wolf numbers is not necessary. The board directed the department to draft implementation plans for four other areas. Those plans will be considered at the board's October meeting. He noted by law, those plans have to be written by the department, they have to contain certain items, and they have to have public hearings. He added that process is currently ongoing. He explained the board will decide in October whether or not they want to authorize predator control in the other areas. He stressed the measures passed last year are not fully implemented but are in the process as rapidly as the law allows. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES noted there have been a series of iterations on trying to establish a wolf control policy of the Board of Game and at a number of those stages, in addition to the regulations proposed to be adopted, there were measures proposed to begin a dialogue with the general public which would enable a broader understanding of the scientific basis for active management of game. He wondered if those measures had been initiated. MR. REGELIN said that is correct. He stated the department is in the process of trying to develop a process which will establish a wolf management policy that can be long standing, acceptable by the public and the legislature, and useful by the board. He noted the department is working closely with the Board of Game and the Office of the Governor, and hopefully, with the leaders of the legislature in putting the plan together. He added that many ideas have been put forth and feedback is being received. The department has talked to most of the interest groups on all sides of the issue, getting their advice and trying to determine how to move forward so there can be a policy which will withstand the test of time and not be stopped as soon as it is implemented. CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS made a MOTION to MOVE HCS CSSB 77(RES), out of committee with individual recommendations. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a roll call vote. Voting in favor of the motion were Representatives Kott, Austerman, Ogan, Williams, and Green. Voting against the motion was Representative Davies. The MOTION PASSED 5-1.
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